Saturday, January 06, 2007

Dialogue Between Mick G and Friends

Mick G wrote:
When you can..give me your opinion on this, I didn't know how to respond to my sister...or if I should at all? I was thinkin' starting with the native American Indians, the Euro white male was one of the most barbaric conquers, in history--much like the Crusades.....and Inquisition,etc. The anti-semitism back then wasn't from the Moors/Muslims, so much as from the "Good Christians." I'm not totally sure of that--but that's what I've read, from a Jewish author, no less. Lou, Louise, I know you know your world history much more than I, I would appreciate any input on this. I know--it's immature to answer--tit 4 tat, but....I dunno, my sister is a conservative Catholic, Bush-Cheney supporter, and feels like it's all 'Black & White' that we have to kill evil, and were ALL so good, and their bad, and it's Like Jesus steppin' on the head of the serpent, blah, blah..we've had heated exchanges many times, but not lately though---we gave up on each other--God Bless—Happy New Year!!


From: Louise R
To: Mick G
Subject: Jesus test

As my Catholic relatives and Catholic friends have always said "If the priest holds something that is definitely white and says it is black – WE know that it is DEFINITELY BLACK.

Good luck if you can convince your sister in [changing] anything that she believes-- but keep trying anyway! [Keep resisting] bush, cheney, etc. you have your work cut out

I believe that all people should start understanding other religions, respecting everyone's right, not trying to convert, but to teach peace-- not killing! I feel like a hypocrite whenever I go into churches of any religion as I [no] longer believe in everything they
teach us to believe.

Too many wars were done as religious missions. Centuries ago, soldiers from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, [and] England fought their way to Jerusalem for[centuries] to "rescue the Holy Grail." Missionaries in Vietnam were responsible for convincing us to send [more] troops to prevent Communism spreading. France left Vietnam. I watched TV as they were talking, sending pictures.

We should support the Dayton Peace Museum, support the Peace Movements. I read Hitler's Mein Kampf. My father told me to "get that book out-of-[the-] house," burn it. But he [Hitler] did have some points-- Jewish Attorneys & Bankers favor[ed] Jewish people, but other religions also favor their own people. We need to get people focused on the individual - not their group. In the Depression, the Jewish family next door gave my father work, gave my brother a job. [But they also] told my family (and we knew it was true), that their family was unhappy that my neighbor helped us instead of helping another Jew.

At least, I, and most of my relatives and friends, (Catholic and Protestant) have left the Republican ranks and opened eyes and ears to what is going on. Fortunately I listened to my father and in the 1930s, Father Couglin on the radio from the "Little Church of" I forgotten what the name of his church was in Detroit, Michigan. He tried to tell fellow Americans of the abusers of truth in politics and religion, Capital vs Labor. I'm surprised that the Catholic Church did not shut him down, maybe they finally did.

My Mother baked every week, made soup, etc. and my father would take it over to what is now John Carroll University in University Heights, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) to two elderly Jesuit Priests who were living in the first building under construction. The priests had little money and no central heat. One Saturday morning, my father found them dead, their bodies frozen as they tried to keep the seismograph [?] warm from their bodies. My parents were so angry, as they notified the police and Catholic authorities, and there was no reaction. [The response was] only like a "So what?" The Diocese in Cleveland, Ohio has always had plenty of money. Two sisters in our neighborhood worked in the Diocese, one as head of Catholic Welfare and my father prepared her federal/state income tax. The Church also owned the National Broadcasting Station. Why could the Church and my Catholic relatives not see that it was wrong to not provide the Jesuit Priests with food and shelter.

On the other hand, my Protestant grandmother saw no wrong in ministers, they were above reproach, always right, to be respected, listened to, followed, even when a woman reported she was raped.

"Ministers could do no wrong" Ha, Ha - they are still human beings, can be good, can be bad. Look at the recent Cincinnati area news, regarding ministers, the religious organization involved in placing children in questionable foster homes.
Currently I think we should believe in ourselves, (think about what we are, character, read, listen, question

When I was in grade school on Armistice Day (11th hour, 11th day, 11th month) day to remember World War I as the war to end all wars, I came home from school and asked my mother "why were the Germans and Americans fighting?" They believed in God, we believed in God. I think that is the time that I started questioning everything, especially religion and politics. At the church where we attended, my father opened a telegram from Washington DC, telling the church what to preach on Sunday. I recall Newton D. Baker was the name, believe he was the Secretary of Warr (later changed by politicians to "Defense".

My parents were the product of family arguments on religion, history of abuses, believers that 'instances did happen in the family", and non-believers, 'just a story". Therefore they made it a point to be friends with everyone, talk about beliefs, customs. My father started the Cleveland Conference of Christians and Jews. Every month, a Priest, Minister, or Rabbi from each church and temple would meet for lunch and discuss community issues. We also would have in each community, a community Thanksgiving Service to be held each year in a different religious church/synagogue. That continued until a new Pope in Rome ordered that Catholic Priests could no longer attend or join a community organization. There would now be catholics and non-catholics.

After I told someone about my maternal grandmother's having gone into the Chicago saloons and being a charter member of the Women's Christian Temperance Union, that passed the Prohibition Amendment, he said no wonder you are the way you are. My Dad, descending from a[n] Austrian-Holland generation who made their own wine/beer, refused to go into a speakeasy during Prohibition. We made homemade root beer. When [Prohibition was] repealed, the first day was the date of my brother's Senior Prom. My Dad warned him not to drink, as it would still be "bootleg", and not inspected. My brother did, and almost died. My paternal grandmother marched in Evanston Wyoming to get [the] Suffrage Amendment passed; and Wyoming was the first state to give women
the right to vote. So, I really should (and have not) get more active in politics.
BUT if I ever, ever get my house organized-- still have boxes to unpack, go thru, throw out, file, [and] shred-- will get active in the World Peach [Peace] Movement. Oh well, when younger, i noticed that old people talk too much, too long - and I am now doing the same; [I] admit that I am indeed 'old.

It was wonderful growing up in our home. At sometime or [other], every priest, rabbi, and minister had come many times to talk with my father. They talked freely, as they knew my father respected their confidence. (But as a child, I listened, remembered, and never told until now.) I knew almost every priest, minister, and rabbi in Cleveland. Later when I played the harp for a wedding or other occasion, they remembered me, to my surprise.

When my father was in the hospital before he died, radio advertised that the blood bank was low, and my father's name was mentioned. The hospital was surprised at how many ]responded,] and the identity of the donors. As I told my father, you have to get well, you have Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish blood all fighting for you.

At his funeral, the funeral director asked me "who was your father". I questioned "Why do you ask?" Because they were both in the Rotary Club. My father had sold him advertising and funeral paper supplies for years. Funeral homes had had funerals for 3 Cleveland Mayors, and not one of them had had as many flowers, wreaths, cards as my father's funerals. Flowers were in every room (floor to ceiling), [and] on [the] porch that encircled the funeral home (from floor to ceiling). My father stressed "logic", think "logic".

Before I left California, there was a documentary: [In it,] the "good Christians" took Indian children from their villages into San Bernadino, California from as young as 2-3 years old. [They] made them wear our clothing styles, cut their hair, eat our type of food, talk only English, go to our churches, [and] learn our religion. Those poor children and parents! Only in the past few years has this knowledge been published. Only recently have the American Indians been allowed to govern themselves and have their own schools and native teachers, etc.

On TV last year I saw a documentary. A man in Australia decided to go to England and look up his family. He could not get a passport because of not having a birth certificate. In investigating, [it was] found that the Queen of England, Prime Minister, Church of England (Episcopal) and the Catholic Church in England were equally guilty. [They were] knowledgeable [and] responsible for taking all children in the orphanages during World War II, put[ting] them on ships, [taking] them to Australia. [This was] to build up English blood among the Aborigines. As small children, they were used as laborers to build schools and dormitories. The children were divided up between the Episcopal and Catholic dormitories and schools. I talked with people at work the next day. They told me the TV story was untrue, England could not have done anything like that. There were even pictures of the men and women now finding their identit[ies] and families. One mother said that when her husband was killed, she put her children in the orphanage until she found a job. When she went to get her children, [she] was told that they had been adopted by a "wonderful family" and were "better off." [She was told that] she should never try to find them.

Again, how we are manipulated by politics and religion I should write a book-- save some of [these] ramblings to be published after my death; or, I could be sued [over] some things I could write about.


From: Mick G
To: David L
Subject: Jesus test

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: n b
To: Mick G
Subject: Jesus test

I am highly offended that you misinterpreted the forward (Jesus? So, you believe in whom?) I thought this was one message with which most Christians would agree, that Jesus is the answer. No, you take it personally, like a real a$$h@le, and embarrass me with your misrepresentation of this and of me. You who espouse tolerance for all thoughts, beliefs and faiths except, of course, MINE, are really hopeless, that's what I think. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, SERIOUSLY!

From: David L
To: Mick G
Subject: Jesus test

We, as a country, have no right calling ourselves "Christians," when our government has gone out and slaughtered innocent civilians in a foreign country. Having prayer in school or posting the Ten Commandments in a courthouse is just as hypocritical as saying [that[ we trust in god. The Republican party has used these tactics to get elected, and only the stupid fell for it. That's why they are not in power now. The people have spoken. There are only two types of Republicans: The very wealthy and the stupid.


From: Louise R
To: Mick G
Subject: Re Jesus test

We are the ones who are stupid. We talk among ourselves, do not get involved.

WE DO NOT write, or call the politicians.

Congress needs to change immediately--separate Church and state, and tax all religions. Religion has become a business. Anyone can get a diploma, have a friend or 2 over, [and declare it a "church"]. [Forever after, she] can deduct [her] home, car, etc. With all the property that religious institutions have, tax revenue from those would fund the schools, [and] fund welfare agencies

Need to change immediately that "babies born are not immediately American Citizens, only if BOTH PARENTS ARE LEGAL CITIZENS.

The 'minister' in Indianapolis started out helping people. Then, [he was] a good man. Then, [because] power corrupts, ]things changed]. He moved his congregation to San Francisco, then to South America. And we should remember how all those people "committed suicide"! Their relatives could not convince family members to leave that church [more exactly, cult].

Look at the corruption in all religions. But religion appears to hypnotize people, cloud their thinking. (Or [they are] told) , not to think, but to accept.


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